i feel privileged to be able to see war footage. this hasn’t really been possible for most of human history. you can look and see the brutality of war and what it really means to “die for your country”
i don’t agree with censoring war videos. i’m glad that reddit abstains from this. i’m certain they will be banning it in the future. in think in near future we will not get any media outside of a giant firewall much like China
MAID is the ultimate expression of bodily autonomy
shooting yourself in the head is the ultimate expression of bodily autonomy.
an institutionalized system of euthanasia is something else entirely. you are requesting that the government/healthcare institution kill you.
Except you are not. You haven’t actually discussed MAID itself other than saying it generally makes you feel icky
i’ve written near a dozen comments about this at this point. i haven’t mentioned eugenics once except to make the comparison of the progressive appearance in the 1900s. you write yet don’t read
Can you explain why you’re against MAID without referring to eugenics or any other historical issue?
read any of my dozen comments where i discuss this with people who actually address the conversation instead of nitpick on some imaginary offense. my primary concerns are two fold
a system of institutionalized killing is necessarily bound to our institutions. it does not take much imagination to come up with scenarios where there are perverse incentives for the people involved to encourage or coerce people into agreeing to being euthanized. ever heard “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism”? it’s because everything is bound up in profit-seeking and exploitation. whatever we bring into our society will be infected by this. are you prepared for there to be private healthcare practices (aka private businesses) encouraging people to kill themselves for financial gain?
this is an ideological shift from “treating life as sacred” to “treating life as expendable” and that will come with consequences down the road. i believe when we as a society stop viewing life as sacred this will inevitably have knock-off effects down the road that result in a lack of human dignity. everything we do this decade determines what we will do in the next decade. you destigmatize something now and you shift the bounds of acceptable conversation in the future. we are playing with fire here so I think it’s wise to tread carefully
… by comparing eugenics and MAID
Definition of compare: To consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; liken.
Nowhere did I say eugenics is similar, equal or analogous to euthanasia. You can go ahead and read the comments again, you won’t find it.
What we are comparing is the societal perception of eugenics in the early 1900s and the perception of euthanasia now.
Why did you specifically pick eugenics as an example only to then say it isn’t like MAID?
To make the point that just because something seems progressive on its face doesn’t necessarily mean it will stand the test of time. It is an example. I think it’s a good example because of how relatively horrible eugenics seems today relative to how positively it was seen in the past. Perhaps you could find other examples, I’d be happy to hear them.
All I’m saying about euthanasia/assisted suicide/whatever acronym you wanna give it- is that it must be judged on its own merits outside of groupthink. That’s what I’m attempting to do here, discuss the idea on its own merits. I think that’s what you actually have an issue with, not the feigned pearl clutching about some comparison.
I’m not comparing eugenics with euthanasia. I’m comparing the perception of what “progressive” meant back then to right now.
The point I’m trying to make is that just because something is considered progressive today does not mean it won’t be considered barbaric tomorrow. This is why I don’t immediately support something just because it appears to have a veneer of idealism. I think it through carefully.
same as the logic behind thinking abortions are wrong
I don’t consider a fetus a human life so I don’t see it as wrong. I’m not even religious, I’d say I’m “culturally Christian” sort of like most Jews I’ve met are “culturally Jewish”
The way I view it- you’re gonna be dead for the rest of eternity. Any amount of suffering you are going through now is temporary. You will eventually die.
Of course, I know it’s easy to say that when you’re not suffering in pain like your grandfather may be. So like I said, I’m not judging and I’m holding reservations on this until I’ve thought more about it.
Really, to be frank, I think people already have the option to kill themselves. They have always had that option. What I really disagree with is giving our institutions the ability to kill people. I don’t trust our healthcare systems, I don’t trust our government, and I don’t trust all the middlemen in between. They could pressure people who don’t need to do or they could rush judgements.
idea in theory, but rather because people were nowhere near responsible enough to administer such a program in practical application
What I find interesting is that nowadays we see eugenics in a bad light. Back then most progressive liberals endorsed it. But the Catholic church- condemned the idea of eugenics. It was seen as an affront to God’s creation. Us artificially manipulating something that should not be manipulated.
I agree with your statement above. I don’t trust our institutions. I believe people will fall through the cracks and will get killed unnecessarily. Suicide is a permanent thing that you can not undo. It’s a similar reason I have misgivings about capital punishment.
What does everyone here think about it? I know it’s typically seen as progressive, although so was eugenics in the early 1900s.
My gut feeling tells me this is wrong. I can’t judge someone for wanting to die while in pain and maybe I would think differently if it were me or my family member. But I think human life is something sacred and that we all have a duty to ourselves and to each other to live for as long as we can.
Maybe it’s just some built-in religious indoctrination from growing up Catholic, but I’m scared that this will eventually de-stigmatize suicide.
We call it “self-assisted euthanasia” but this is essentially legalizing companies to assist in suicides.
watching a soldier’s legs get blown up by a drone with 3 dead soldiers around him pick up his rifle and shoot himself in the head isn’t really what I would call a show of glory